Monday, June 22, 2015

The proselytizing athiest or the advocate of disbelief

Something I find fascinating is the strong objection by some atheists to having their belief system characterized as a belief system. A secondary and related objection is to be described as proselytizing. I'm going to explain why this assertion can accurately describe both these thoughts. If you are fascinated by word usage and definition this post should be entertaining and informative. If not, then your head will probably explode from the emotional reaction to the paradox of how an ideology based on disbelief can be characterized accurately as a belief. It is not my intent to offend anyone, though I probably will, but simply to promote better understanding between myself and others.

First I suppose we should define the terms belief, proselytize, and religious. If you have not clicked  the links and read the full definition and examples of usage I will now explain how I am using the words in brief. This is not because I think you need a lesson on what these words mean, but because how I use them may deviate from common usage you may have experienced. This is a common mistake of perception that we all make based on how our brains typically work.

Belief is a noun and represents something one accepts as true. While often used in conjunction with religious beliefs this is not necessary for something to be a belief. Many believe that climate change is real because we can accept the assertion by most of the worlds scientists. We know there is a mountain of evidence that they have for each of us to look at, but few would take the time to look at it. Hence most of us simply believe the scientists rather than actually formulating our own experiments and collecting and correlating data ourselves.

Proselytize is a verb and represents advocating a belief or opinion. While most often used to describe religious beliefs or opinions it is not necessary for the act of proselytizing. Vegans often proselytize on the subject of eating animals and using animal based products. It can be described as proselytizing because vegans are advocating their opinion that these practices are harmful. I myself am proselytizing right now by advocating my opinion that some atheists advocate disbelief in a deity.

Religious is an adjective describing something of a belief or practice pertaining to one's belief or thoughts about worship of a divine being. It should not be confused with the noun religion, which is a thing. Religious iconography can refer to a picture of a cross  just as archaic can be correctly applied to that same picture if it was made using a process no longer used in the modern era. Neither descriptor in this case changes what the picture is, but simply relates it to other things.

So why use the phrase 'proselytizing atheist'? Well it has to do with the subject matter of the opinion. Because atheism is the belief that a god doesn't exist, it is proper to place it with the words that have connection with religious beliefs. Furthermore it is proper to define it as a religious belief, because it is an opinion about a god like other religious beliefs.

Atheism is unique among religious beliefs, because it starts with 'there is no God.' This does not invalidate that it is about God, and thus subject to classification as both religious and a belief. It is the similarities of subject matter that allows for this, not the subject matter itself.

This seeming paradox of language is what I believe is the source of confusion and conflict over the phrasing of atheism as a belief system and proselytizing atheist. Atheism at its core is a belief in disbelief and superficially seems contradictory, but when you look deeper at it, it can make sense from the various tenants of the perspective of a god not existing. If you want to know more about the ideas themselves I would suggest watching Neil Degras Tyson's presentation in The Atheist. I may disagree with his conclusions, but his reasoning is fascinating intellectually.

Whew, I can still feel the brain sweat from working this post out. I hope you enjoyed reading it and were able to take away something from it. Any arguments or additions to this subject are welcome, but remember I am unlikely to respond unless they are in the comments on this post. 

Thanks for reading and have a good day.



7 comments:

  1. I can appreciate what you're trying to say, but you didn't sufficiently define your terms. If you go a bit further in doing so, your argument defeats itself.

    Religious
    adjective
    1. relating to or believing in a religion.

    Religion
    noun
    1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

    I'll concede that atheists adhere to a belief that there is no God. However, I disagree that said belief can be classified as a religious one because it does not fit the definition in regard to the dogmatic implications.

    British usage of the word 'religion' goes a step further and specifically defines it as a belief in the divine.

    In short, by starting with the statement "there is no god", atheism disqualifies itself for the label 'religious' in any way. Call it a philosophy, a theory, a hypothesis, a mind-set, or an attitude, but don't call it a religion. The word just doesn't apply.

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  2. Nowhere in this post do I assert that atheism is a religion, but I can make a case based on the definition of religion you have presented.

    Atheism is a belief that the universe (multiverse) spontaneously came into existence without aid from design.

    Under the first part of the definition of religion you presented atheism qualifies as a religion. While it states that it is especially applicable when describing a belief structure concerning a deity, it nowhere requires it to do so. Thus atheism can be considered a religion under the definition as presented.

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  3. Again, your logic is reasonably solid, but it's built on a false foundation. The thing that keeps bringing me back here is that I know you're not this closed-minded. In fact the entire point of your argument is to encourage even those lacking belief to be more open and view themselves as being also a part of the same spiritual journey. I get that, it's admirable. I've tried to couch my arguments within the framework of your definitions as you requested initially. Ultimately, I've just gotta go with telling you that you are wrong to so narrowly define atheism as anything at all. Atheism is in itself no more than the lack of theism. Without a belief in god, there would be no word to describe its absence. Is vacuum a form of atmosphere? Is darkness light? Is a blank canvas a picture? Is ignorance knowledge? Is bland flavorful? Atheism cannot be described as religious or in relation to religion because it is by definition the lack thereof.

    I describe myself as an atheist when asked, (or a satanist when asked), but if asked if I believe in god I'll generally say that I don't give a shit. The question is not relevant to my interests.

    http://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism?
    "Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position.""

    https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Atheism
    Practical atheism
    Main article: Apatheism
    In practical or pragmatic atheism, also known as apatheism, individuals live as if there are no gods and explain natural phenomena without reference to any deities. The existence of gods is not rejected, but may be designated unnecessary or useless; gods neither provide purpose to life, nor influence everyday life, according to this view.[61] A form of practical atheism with implications for the scientific community is methodological naturalism—the "tacit adoption or assumption of philosophical naturalism within scientific method with or without fully accepting or believing it."[62]

    Practical atheism can take various forms:

    Absence of religious motivation—belief in gods does not motivate moral action, religious action, or any other form of action;
    Active exclusion of the problem of gods and religion from intellectual pursuit and practical action;
    Indifference—the absence of any interest in the problems of gods and religion; or
    Unawareness of the concept of a deity.[63]



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  5. Is vacuum a form of atmosphere? Is darkness light? Is a blank canvas a picture? Is ignorance knowledge? Is bland flavorful?

    Yes to all. See the thing you're missing is that a mesure of thing can be its absence. Also that external perspective contributes to defining that thing. This is actually about relating to atheism in a easily digestible and logical manner. See I can grasp the concept of what absence is when described as thing, but it is not easy to put into words and I don't know how to explain the concept to a six year old without analogy.

    The words and explanation are the gateway and perfectly acceptable within that framework. Very simplified and possibly narrow, but not incorrect. You are arguing aesthetics and that is not what this is about.

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    1. No I'm not missing that, I'm saying it's not true. You cannot measure a thing by it's absence. Absence cannot be measured. Nothing is nothing, there are not degrees of nothing. You can express the measure of something by the perceived effect of its absence, perhaps. There can be less light which causes it to seem darker, but that doesn't mean there is more darkness. There can't be more darkness, darkness is not in and of itself a thing that can be quantified. Darkness is the perceived effect of the absence of light in this case.

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    2. Absence is expressed by zero in mathematics, don't understand why that wouldn't work here.

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